How to Build a Global Live Commerce Brand

[...1.8s]Hello collectors. Live commerce is one of the fastest growing marketplaces in the world, [...0.5s] estimated to reach up to 2.4 trillion by 2033. Today you're gonna learn how to build a booming global live commerce brand from scratch from someone who's done it.I'm joined by Hayden Paul's co founder Fly Kicks, the fastest growing sneaker store on TikTok Shop. So if you wanna understand how life commerce really works, how trust is built at scale, and how collectors turn audiences into global brands, this episode is for you.I'm Danny Moss, former auction house and marketplace leader at Southeast Christie's Golden and eBay, and this is built to collect.So hey, Hayden, [...0.8s] hi Danny, thanks for the opportunity. Sure, um, let's just dive right into it, and thank you for joining. Um, let's just dive right into it. So they said this is an education platform, so Hayden, we're really just gonna go through [...0.6s] like, how did you build your business? How do you see success today? Um, and particularly with the live commerce face.So let's start with sort of the beginning story which is, um, [...1.3s] what inspired you to start climax and how did you learn about sneakers to begin with? Well, [...0.5s] we are [...0.8s] to start. I started in [...0.6s] 2,018, which I was a freshman in high school [...0.5s] and I didn't start fly kicks until [...0.8s] two years into selling [...0.5s] sneakers.So for the first two years [...0.5s] I was [...0.9s] essentially just [...0.6s] flipping any sneakers I could get my hand on, [...1.1s] whether that was buying on eBay and selling back on eBay or trying to get like a limited release in store where I wait out for for for hours [...0.6s] and then try to sell it locally or [...0.8s] on a marketplace.But I was really doing anything I could. I was I was like the definition of like a high school Hustler who [...0.6s] I wanted to make money on their own. So that's how I started [...0.7s] in like the sneaker industry, essentially 14 years old, couldn't get a job anywhere else, try to make money on my own. And I knew sneakers, like I kind of like fashion.So this was the space [...0.5s] and I started Fly Kicks with my girlfriend in 2020. We, [...0.7s] at that point, she was reselling and thrifting clothes on Instagram, [...0.5s] so we both have, like, a reselling, [...0.6s] uh, like we, we could relate with reselling not the same industry, but in high school and from my area. Like, you didn't know anyone who did the same business as you.Uh, so it's cool. Uh, so we kicked it off really quickly, uh, and we just had so much to, to relate to. We, we were dating for a little bit, and then she critiqued a lot of my, my practices of sneaker reselling.And she said she probably could do a better job at marketing and the sales end of it. Uh, and she wanted to get involved as quickly as possible, and she was, she like sneakers as well, so, uh, just one day we, [...0.7s] uh, we asked, like, we should [...0.7s] wanna do this together.Uh, and sure enough, that's where we started Fly Kicks. We have the same name, uh, and the same logo from when we started, when we were in high school five years ago. That's how we started [...0.4s] in 2020, [...0.5s] started in high school, [...0.6s] college and now we're outside of college.So we've, [...0.5s] yeah, we've done everything together and it's been like it's been a crazy, crazy experience.So was flag kicks sort of the transition from being a flipper that buys from one place and then list it either on the same place or another to saying like, wait, I can buy the inventory, but now I'm gonna put it up on Instagram and actually make this like a brand.That's right. That's exactly what it is. Back in like the 2018 to 2020 era of sneakers, it was [...0.6s] ever and doing the same thing where [...0.8s] like I said, they try to buy [...0.7s] cheaper and then just sell it on a platform. No one was really making a name for themselves.And yeah, fly kicks we, right, when we started, we went immediately to the consumer. So right when we started, we cut out all the middlemen and we started going to the consumer directly [...0.7s] on Instagram.So we had an Instagram page, Fly Kicks. And we would essentially, [...0.9s] uh, post pairs on like, uh feed posts or Instagram posts and try to sell them and have, uh, have viewers swipe up or DM us to purchase.And we would handle all the transactions through the DMs, [...0.5s] very like non professional but very personal. I guess that's how we started direct to consumer since day one with fly kicks. [...1.4s]Um, amazing. And, um, I think for most people say like, this is pre [...0.4s] covid [...0.7s] and sort of like what not and what not booming and everyone at home. So you guys are sort of this just earlier than that thinking this was this was gonna be a thing [...0.9s] absolutely.We [...0.8s] think about us like we're [...0.5s] two high school kids who don't know what they're doing. We're just doing it for fun. Like honestly, we're making like we're making okay money, like money enough, like enough money to not get a job in high school.But it was purely a passion project. Like we did it together. We were able to spend so much time together, [...0.5s] and we just both love the enjoyment of, like, [...0.5s] giving so on, like giving business to people. That was it was true passion.So we didn't really know we got set up with a, like right timing and a good opportunity with the market, but it just fell into place that way. So in the early model, when you first started, how did you find customers? Like, how do you build demand?So initially, [...0.7s] like, [...0.5s] early stages with the Instagram page, we, [...0.9s] we transition Sydney's thrifting account, which had a platform already. She had [...0.6s] a few thousand followers on her account already, so we had some sort of Kickstarter with her existed platform.We rebranded it to Fly Kicks, let all the people know. Uh, and honestly [...0.4s] looking back at it, I am I'm in disbelief of how we actually grew that account so big so quickly because we didn't do, like, I'm looking back and trying to think what we did to grow and get new customers, uh, word of mouth.I mean we got people to tag us on their Instagram story, so when they receive their items from us, they would tag us and we would get a bunch of their friends. So that was like a big, [...0.8s] big lead as far as [...0.6s] word of mouth, [...1.5s] that's the main source I can really think of.We didn't do any promotion, we didn't do any paid promotion, we didn't do [...1.3s] anything outside of just doing what we did. [...1.3s] Were you still in the beginning, did you focus more on sort of drops and getting things directly from retailers, or was it also [...0.7s] finding things on eBay on secondary?And if you were finding things on eBay [...0.7s] and, and other places and then flipping it in your own platform, how did you sort of set up trust in the beginning with your with your buyers? Uh, sourcing wise in the beginning, it was from both the retailer and the other platform.So that's how it, like I said, that's how I knew, like that's how I started reselling. And then Sydney [...0.6s] also had an experience of just finding good products online and hidden marketplaces and then flipping it on her own platform. Uh.So it was a good mixture of both, is pretty much whatever we could get our hands on that we thought was like [...0.4s] sellable, that we thought people would like and we could uh, we could sell.Uh, [...0.5s] as far as trust it was there's no real I, I think what people drew it in was the authenticity where we're like, they know who's running the account.It's too, [...0.5s] two kids, [...0.7s] like two people like two people we had to face to the business so people knew who were there buying from, you weren't buying from just like a logo, you were buying from Sydney and Hayden.So I think that was a huge component. We also I think we grew the account really quickly up to [...0.4s] twenty something thousand followers.So I think [...0.8s] I don't like I don't like to say about like, like more followers, more trust, but I think that had a play into something as far as just our overall presentation [...0.5s] of our business [...1.4s] was very trustworthy.And that's how I wanted it to be. [...1.3s] Um, I just want to highlight to people, and I'll probably raise this again, and we were talking about it before this recording of just like people should go to TikTok and check out [...0.6s] fly kicks.And, and even to this day, Hayden and Sydney do an exceptional job of [...0.8s] making their TikTok shop, like engaging and [...0.5s] helpful and interesting without any kind of sort of to put of trust, like, without oversell, any kind of like theatrics.It's just [...0.4s] really very much so the two of them [...0.5s] and like incredibly authentic and genuine. [...1.1s] I appreciate that.Yeah, [...0.5s] okay let's talk about how did Tik so was this was the aha moment when TikTok kind of came into the picture, or how did TikTok come into the picture? [...1.5s] TikTok came into the picture when? [...2.4s] So to give some context, we are selling on Instagram platform for two years, 2020 to 2022.And we were kind of outgrowing the platform where we had too much demand. Say we get a drop of, uh, [...0.5s] we, we get 50 new pairs in, we would post it and [...0.6s] all of them would sell day of. So we kind of were finding out like, yeah we're, this is too much.So we transitioned. We found the right time to transition to a website where rather than trying to post all these pictures [...0.5s] on our Instagram, we would just list the product and then funnel people from Instagram to our website. And that worked really well, to be honest.I still remember the first Shopify day. It, like, it was a memorable experience I'll never forget. [...1.1s] So that's how we transition. And then once we transition to a website, uh, we decided to try to go cross platform where we promote our brand outside of just Instagram.Cause right, right then we were kind of just like an Instagram brand. Uh, so we found TikTok, TikTok.I honestly wasn't, like, [...0.7s] I have a lot different perspective on TikTok now. But when I started, it was just [...0.6s] the second biggest platform aside from [...0.6s] Instagram. And it wasn't necessarily something I thought we could, like, [...0.5s] convert off of or anything. It was mainly just because I knew it was such a big platform, [...0.9s] and we'd be losing out if we didn't do it.So we just started posting random Tik toks [...0.6s] about sneaker content and please don't do this, but if you look at all the if you look at our first insert or TikTok posts, you'll know what I mean.It's, it's pretty embarrassing, but I keep it, cause you see the, the growth. We posted anything and anything, like everything. It was just so random, but we just [...0.4s] had fun doing it. Uh, so that's how it started, and people actually started picking up on it.We got a pretty good fast following on TikTok, uh, just by posting random stuff.And [...0.6s] we, [...0.7s] we try to live one time, so live was the big unlock with TikTok, but [...0.5s] we went live and we had our shoes in the background kind of just kind of for fun at that point, nobody was going live. I can like, I can confidently say we're the first people on TikTok to be going live with sneakers.Kind of in like that [...0.5s] commerce space trying to [...0.4s] sell people on a live, but also [...0.8s] just have fun. And it picked up right away. Like honestly, we went live [...0.6s] in our parents basement with like a terrible presentation and it was getting, I think 3,000 concurrent viewers.And we would just like, guys, if you see the shoes that you like in the background, you can check her website in her bio. I remember [...0.5s] I was on vacation one day and Cindy went live.It was like the first few times you were going live, we sold out of her entire website on 1 live. And that was like the real eye opener as far as like TikTok's powerful live shopping or like live video is powerful. And I've had a whole different perspective since that. [...3.7s]How, um, [...0.7s] how did so as so as you've grown on TikTok, [...0.5s] um, [...0.5s] how has supply sourcing change for you?Oh, yeah, supply has been completely, uh, restructured for the better. Uh, so when we had our website and [...0.7s] we're doing, like I said, we were go to sneaker events locally, I didn't have a strong supply chain.It was essentially whatever could get my hands on, we had the demand for. It was just the supply issue. So I knew I could kind of overpay, and I could pay anything to get the product, and most of the time, people charge the most at these sneaker conventions.Uh, so I would go to these events and pretty much spend all the money I have. Uh, [...0.5s] and then no matter what I'm paying, if I see a shoe, we're gonna buy it regardless of the price. We're buying it, we can sell it for, [...0.6s] for whatever's fair, and that's how it used to be.And since we have gotten on TikTok Shopping, we partnered with KNET, we have completely restructured our sourcing. Uh, so I don't handle any of the sourcing. Uh. Thankfully I'm very involved in the product itself. But as far as sourcing, uh, I don't I don't touch it all.We're getting pairs for [...0.8s] a lot lower than we would. We're getting pairs for wholesale prices and not [...0.9s] over marketplace asks. So it's a lot, we chose this route just because [...1.0s] it's a lot more sustainable.We can offer customers more value as far as [...1.3s] people buying just because of it, because it's us. It's more, it's because it's us and we give [...0.8s] good, good value.So can you explain a little bit of what K net is? And then, um, it seems a little bit on K net. Yeah, so we, uh, to give some [...0.6s] background, we, we were in college, uh, and we were running this business in college.We had a storefront in college, uh, and it was good. I mean it took up most of our time in college, but [...0.6s] looking forward, we were we're both a bit worried about doing this post college, uh, just because like, [...0.8s] can we can this handle?Like, can we do this full time? Can we live off of this business? We ultimately were worried that, like we can continue doing this but have to have some other source of income just to live comfortably and [...1.5s] shortly at, like, I think last August, uh, [...0.5s] one of uh, one of my close, [...0.7s] this, the sneaker community is very close. And, you know the good people, uh, and, you know the bad people and the good people stick to each other. And, uh, [...0.5s] one of my closest people who I knew his name is Dejan. Uh, I've met him in 2018 when I started as well.He was starting up as well in college. We're the same age. And, [...0.6s] uh, we have been we've been in touch with each other throughout the entire, [...0.5s] uh, five, six years. And, [...0.4s] uh, we had we haven't done business together, but we both trust, respect every, everything about each other. Uh.And he reached out to me [...0.8s] in August [...0.4s] about [...0.5s] an opportunity [...0.6s] on TikTok and more importantly, TikTok Shop. So [...1.2s] he's the co founder of Kinet. Uh, kinet is a [...0.6s] cross listing, warehousing and fulfillment platform for sneaker resellers.Uh, so essentially of Kinet, uh, we have our own internal buy and sell team. So we're our biggest customers, but we also [...0.6s] give our service to all other trusted sneaker resellers. Uh, we vet them [...0.5s] probably unlike anyone else, uh, and [...0.7s] once they're vetted, they are able to sell on our platform.So [...0.8s] they can send us their product, we would store, we have our own internal tech and then it's cross listed on every single major platform.I think we're up to over 20 platforms right now. So instead of just trying to sell in one, it increases the speed of sale from like 3 to 5% or 3 to [...0.6s] three to five times. And [...1.0s] there is a, yeah, they do all fulfillment, they have their own tech.It's pretty much an a to Z service service for, uh, for secret resellers [...1.4s] and fly kicks that is exclusively doing all of the live commerce on behalf of can not just live commerce.It's a it's a the, the the partnership arised, uh, with us building such large, probably the largest community and platform on TikTok.Uh, and then when [...0.9s] they had the opportunity to sell on TikTok Shop, rather than trying to build it from zero to 100 by themselves, uh, yeah they, [...0.8s] they offered it to us where we would, uh, we would we would partner together.They [...0.5s] would use all their, their ops and everything, and we would build the largest platform on TikTok Shop, which we done very well. So, [...0.6s] so it's not just that the live, we [...1.0s] do everything with TikTok Shop. [...1.5s] Yeah, they're, they're mainly their big, like, they provide the, [...0.4s] the product [...1.2s] fulfillment.Uh, [...2.3s] like it's weird cause, like, I, I'm the founder of Fly Kicks, but I'm also like, I work with like, work at cat, so I, it's a, whenever someone asked me what, like, my role is, it's like I couldn't even tell them because [...0.6s] we're [...0.7s] in Canada.We're so [...0.8s] involved with everything, [...0.9s] so I, everything I'm saying, I'm like I'm in it, so when I say Cana is doing this, it's me doing it as well. It's, [...0.5s] but with this handled everything, it's just the whole TikTok shop platform. [...1.0s]And, um, [...0.7s] so now as a result of all of this, you're like you just came back from China, you're working Fly Kicks, is working directly with brands, you work with distributors. Um, [...1.1s] what has that, like, what is the long term vision for Fly Kicks, and what does that experience been like?Uh, fly kicks itself, um, I, sometimes I have to, [...0.8s] uh, [...1.4s] fly kicks, I would like for it to go cross platform, so not take our take our experience, [...0.8s] uh, to other platforms as well.Going, [...0.4s] uh, right now, if you didn't have TikTok, you wanna know what Fly kicks is so essentially having a major platform on all these [...0.7s] big sale or big social platforms.Uh, and whether that's following them to a platform or, like, a website or TikTok shop, just getting full visibility, [...0.5s] uh, but mainly having TikTok as, like, the centerpiece as far as the K net vision that I'm involved with.It's going direct to consumer and like the next five years, so essentially, [...0.4s] uh, [...0.5s] yeah having all this supply and all this stuff.And we know what we're doing in the DDC space, so [...0.5s] now it's going straight to the consumer on such scale [...2.1s] amazing. And, um, [...0.6s] so [...0.6s] let's, let's go into a bit of, like, advice for people.Yeah, how, if you were starting out today, and you were let's start with life, deciding about life commerce, yeah, [...0.8s] how do you decide, like, how do you decide what not what advice we give to someone?If I was harder, like, hey, Hayden, [...0.5s] I'm deciding between TikTok and [...0.6s] eBay live and what not and all these places. What advice would you give of, like, where people should think about, how to look and why or do easier one of you that it's, you know similar good supply generates an obvious [...1.4s] don't.There's a, I can add on top of this, but [...1.1s] the, the first thing that came to mind was don't chase the money. Uh, do not chase the money.It's really easy to chase the money, but when you're going through, like, live, don't chase the money. Uh, if, [...0.5s] uh, if you have if you can sell it, like, if you have good product supply of, of anything, [...0.6s] don't try to get held up and just trying to sell it and get the quick money.Uh, think about, like, what, [...0.7s] what a perception these viewers and what brand you're trying to build. I think easily in this, like, resell space [...0.8s] people are, they sell whatever they can get their hands on and make money on.But, [...0.6s] uh, to be to be honest, I, I wouldn't recommend trying to be like that, cause there's, that's you won't set yourself apart, you're gonna be like everyone else, and it's hard to crack that. Uh, maybe just only the bigger people get bigger.Uh, [...0.7s] but I would say really fine, what type of experience you want to give to people and that change, like, that's different from everyone, so before you even start, think about, like, what, why am I doing this am I doing this to, [...0.8s] what type of value are trying to add instead of just selling a commodity? Because [...1.2s] we, yeah, is it an experience that you're trying to give?Is it, [...1.1s] like for us personally, we, we have a big women's audience, and the whole reason we're doing these live shopping things is because we, we see a huge thing of, of women not feeling super intimidated of shopping inside of these sneaker stores in person. Uh, yeah they fight. It's a safe space on, on live.Uh, and that's where our big value and that's where we really started is like, that's our why you kind of have to have a, why it's nothing with money. Like I, I could I would lose money.I'd be I'd break even on live if I if I could just to give people this experience that they're that they're not getting anywhere else.Uh, [...1.3s] it's a great answer, anyone, how like your money will come anyway. Like you can make your money 10 years down the line where it's like something [...0.4s] arises with your brand that you built, but in the beginning, you [...0.4s] don't chase the money. [...1.5s]It's great advice and, um, I think one thing to highlight that if people haven't followed, it is [...1.3s] the value and we've spoken about this of, um, the value of time [...0.8s] and that live commerce [...0.8s] is a big commitment in time, um, [...0.6s] be it, like how you're sourcing the inventory, how you're preparing, what you're going to say.And I think an important part of like your scalability story is how smart it was to team up with cadence to just sort of say, we can scale faster, bigger and better if we have fulfillment [...0.6s] in a completely more efficient manner, um, going with K net, what it what sort of advice you give to people starting out of [...0.4s] how they should think about [...0.7s] there?I mean it's a it's a big buy in on time and how they should think about their time and where they should focus it.I realize that's a big question, but no, I get it [...0.5s] one for life. I like, it's such a tricky one for life. Commerce is where do you allocate your focus when there's so much to focus on to get off the ground?It's, uh, [...0.5s] it's funny to say this because we actually in the last month, we have since our China trip, uh, and a lot of just internal restructuring, uh, Sydney is dedicating [...0.8s] 90 to 100% of her work week on live itself, no other things. She's not thinking about anything else. Uh.And [...0.4s] that's pretty rare for, like, an owner or founder to be, [...0.7s] uh, not doing anything else in the business besides being, like, the face of the business and being present on the live. Uh, cause that's what most other businesses.They outsource live as quickly as possible. They have someone else going live for them, they have other people talking about their product as soon as possible.That's one of the first things people outsource is live. Uh, and [...1.2s] we, we recognize that, like, and that's a big thing about us, is that you are talking to the owners, uh, [...0.8s] rather than outsourcing. Uh, [...2.5s] yeah we're, we're people are outsourcing different things.So most other people in our position, if they have if they're in a similar industry, they're gonna be like, I'm gonna Focus, and I'm gonna be still involved with fulfillment, [...0.5s] and I'm gonna give others, I'm gonna outsource the, [...0.8s] the life.It's quite the opposite for us, were, if, if someone was watching us, they'd be like, how are you able to be on live while juggling everything else with the business?Is cause this is our like, our job is being a lot, like, in front of you real time, and [...0.5s] nobody really does that, and [...0.5s] it's a it's tough because, [...0.6s] uh, everyone tries to uh, [...1.1s] everyone tries to do it in consistency.A lot of the owners, [...0.8s] they try to go live themselves, and [...0.6s] they get burned out really quickly as far as, like, having to juggle everything else. So then they eventually stop [...0.7s] or outsource it.And I think we just did strategically where [...1.4s] we, yeah, we, we outsourced everything else besides that, because we saw the value of it. Generally answer your question, but that's a that's the best I have. [...1.1s]No, it does, and I think to your point you're talking about, it's true that a lot of people [...1.0s] either [...0.7s] are [...0.4s] surprised by the amount and burn out from it, [...1.4s] or they try to bring in external.They sort of see it as a business that I'll get an audience, and then I'll bring in talent, [...0.9s] um, whereby you guys have really made it.Know that [...0.6s] our core ethos is to be the owners and be the talent which has served you. Cause now you're, [...0.6s] you're getting brand partnerships steals, um, from, like, directly from sneaker [...1.1s] retailers, which is amazing. Because they are partnering with you.Yeah, I, I couldn't, and when we, that, I think the craziest thing to reflect on with, like, the last five years is that none of this was planned. It's not like we had, if we're talking education and advice to others, uh, [...0.6s] yeah there's no plan for this.There's honestly, like, we, [...0.5s] yeah, we show you we showed up every day, and we worked as hard as we can, but all this kind of played out to itself.So I think [...0.9s] the best thing to take away is that you don't need it, like, going with the full plan [...0.6s] initially. It's, [...0.6s] it's it, kind of, takes, like, your talent and your hard work, kind of does.It's like a flywheel where [...0.8s] it works for itself. And, [...0.6s] yeah, like next week, like, we're gonna be doing super, super brand campaigns for other, other other not comp competitors, but other, like, sneaker brands themselves were doing.Like, we're gonna be the face of their business [...0.5s] just because of what we established. And, [...0.6s] yeah, I'm at a loss of words when I talk about that, because it's all yeah, it's all so weird. [...1.3s] No, it's amazing you showed up and did the work and stuck with it, which is, yeah, to your point huge part of it.Um, [...0.9s] what's, [...0.6s] let's let's go to, um, I guess [...0.6s] fruit, [...0.5s] what excites you in the in the market today, be it, like, [...0.7s] you just came back from China. Um, what excites you in your space today that you're sort of seeing happening, uh, [...0.5s] TikTok shop or sneaker market, anything you want. Uh. What do you?I think, [...0.7s] um, [...1.1s] live is gonna be the future, uh, and people throw this around. I know like everyone like throws this around, but, uh, yeah I just got back from China and, uh, we're invited by TikTok. Um, so we travel to TikTok, uh, with leader like with their leadership and we were able to spend a lot of time together.And like [...0.5s] the real the real business is like, uh, everything that's going on China, their Douyin platform, which is TikTok in China, [...0.4s] it's, [...0.5s] I'm like, roughly estimating, it's like three years ahead of the US market.Uh, and [...1.2s] rather than like in the US, there's 15% of 5 to 15% of sales attributed to live [...0.8s] on the platform. Uh, in China it's 70%, uh, of all transactions and all GMV is [...0.5s] on live video. Uh.And keep in mind it's the second largest ecommerce platform in all of China, so it's not like it's small. This is where everyone's shopping and wherever in shopping, they're shopping on live.Uh, and [...0.8s] it's, uh, [...1.4s] that's where I think uh, that's where I think it's going so the market right now is, [...0.6s] uh, and if you're going to the marker right now, you're late.Unfortunately, I have to say you're, if you're just trying to get started, it's, there's people like me, and there's other people who are years ahead [...0.8s] of this opportunity, but it, it's still not too late.I think TikTok Shop, the whole platform is gonna be [...0.4s] right alongside of Amazon when we're talking, uh, wherever and shopping and five years, [...0.9s] and then just try to make some, some way out of the [...0.6s] opportunity.Whether that's being a brand itself or a TikTok Shop affiliate, or even being a TikTok Shop partner where you're giving a service for brands or for the creators, [...0.5s] and then the sneaker market on top of that, I think it's [...0.9s] looking incredible as far as, I mean what, what we're building at Cana is.When I when I made the partnership with them, it was [...0.6s] I, I truly believed in them, like, I wouldn't just be partnering out with anyone. I can confidently say we are the best at, like, all facets of the business. We have the strongest talent, we have the strongest brains, we work the hardest.You will not, like, outsmart us or outwork us. It's crazy, you might have more money, like, these big companies might have more money, but they will not, like, out, out do anything with us. And we're, [...0.6s] we're starting to give so much value to all these other sneaker sellers where they're starting to use us.So I think the future of sneakers is with is Kinet working with Kinet finding a way [...0.5s] to make money with Kinet, uh, or just [...0.6s] find a way to work with Canada, and then TikTok Shop as your [...0.5s] the consumers main shopping platform. So making a business out of either of those is what I would recommend.Okay, amazing advice. Um, [...0.8s] we're, we're at times and ask you one last question that I asked. Guess, [...0.5s] um, if you could be a collector or in the industry on the business side [...0.5s] of any other category um, [...0.7s] any other category you want, what would you be and why? [...1.8s]When you mean category, it's like outside of collecting or [...1.0s] other, [...0.5s] any other any other collecting can be like art, watches, whatever you want. Like, what category would you either be a collector in or build a business in? [...2.3s]I feel like those answers would be different if I were to collect and if I were to make a business sign, but I'll answer about, I think, [...0.5s] uh, [...0.6s] oh my gosh, that's tough.Uh, it's probably an easy question, but if I had a, [...5.2s] there's this is it's a little similar, [...0.8s] I would consider, I don't know if clothes, like, I would do something with clothes [...0.5s] that would be like the business, [...0.6s] yeah, is this as far as, like, I think I could do?I know what I know with sneakers and I could really apply with business. So [...0.6s] like some sort of clothes, like clothing or clothes would be the business side and then collecting. I would like to get into [...1.3s] watches, yeah, maybe, yeah, probably watches. Uh, they're like my favorite.I don't know if I could make a business out of it, but if I were to like be heavy on collecting, it would be watches.Other, there's [...0.8s] a whole lot of people making successful businesses out of watches, but, um, [...0.6s] I can see how your, your answer sits with apparel and given Sydney's background and just, um, [...0.9s] the juggernaut that is, um, live commerce and prelove fashion, it's a it's a real opportunity too.So [...1.4s] and we might be doing it, we might be we might be pursuing it, [...0.5s] we might, [...1.8s] well, thank you so much for being on the show.This was [...1.1s] fascinating and quite frankly really, and I feel like I Learned a lot about live commerce and your business and just the opportunity in the space. So thank you so much Hayden. I appreciate [...0.6s] everything.Thank you, [...2.5s] Hayden. Thank you again for sharing how you build trust and scale and live commerce. If this conversation was helpful, subscribe to the channel, [...0.5s] share it with someone building in the space, and let me know who you'd like to hear from next. I'm Danny Moss. Thanks for watching build to collect.